See here. Apple is uncharacteristically asking its developer community for feedback on the quality of the latest Leopard seed. This is even visible to the public, and all feedback is being requested by August 17. The word on the street is that the latest seed, while allegedly more refined than its predecessors, still suffers from widespread quality and stability issues, making many wonder how far away Apple is to a beta release candidate that is roughly on par with OSX Tiger 10.4.10 quality.
The functional areas in need of feedback are Mail & Web, Graphics & Media, Setup & Mobility, Desktop & Interface, Productivity & Communication, and Sharing & Devices. Or, put another way, almost everything.
As a guy who’s been in the software business his entire professional career, let me tell you what this smells like: a delay. Since the Leopard seeds have been made available to ADC members, the quality has been an issue. And for all of the improvements each seed has delivered, other areas remain — at least according to the Apple rumor sites and certain Mac forums — troublingly weak. If I had to guess — and I am guessing, so readers who like to read only a few sentences then go apeshit on me in the comments might want to pay attention here — I think Apple is coming up to a go/no-go decision meeting and they need all the data they can get before they pull the trigger on another delay. Operative words are guess and think.
If Apple is to hold to its October GA date, that means it likely only has a few weeks left of actual coding before system + beta testing begins. And once you’re in testing lockdown, not much coding happens outside of bugfixing. If there are too many bugs coming in from internal and external sources, you’re in trouble. You need more coding time. Something’s gotta give, and that something is the release date.
I have nothing to back this up besides my own reading of the tea leaves. I hope I’m wrong. But typically, when defect arrival rates don’t slow down considerably (which tells the developers the code is maturing), other feedback mechanisms are sought to corroborate the disappointingly steady arrival rates. And if that corroboration actually happens, well, it’s time to talk about pushing the date or trimming features, and Apple’s not too keen on the latter.
My nickel? Take your time, Apple. Yes, everyone wants Leopard ASAP, and yes AAPL will take a nosedive upon a delay announcement, but I’d rather suffer that than poor initial impressions of Leopard once it hits the shelves. Microsoft fucked around with Vista for five years and trimmed all sorts of promised features and still released what many consider to be an unfinished product. You have some wiggle room here, Apple. Use it if you have to.
If I’m wrong, great. If not, well, maybe Apple’s slowly trying to become more radically transparent in its own way.
37 responses so far ↓
gwhiz // August 16, 2007 at 12:18 am |
It’s definitely going to come in on time. (Don’t ask. Can’t tell.) It might be in your trick or treat bag. But, it’s a sure thing for October.
Brian Purkiss // August 16, 2007 at 12:43 am |
*sigh*
crap.
I’ve been holding out on getting myself a Mac Book Pro so I could get it with Leopard.
*sigh*
Well, if I get it now, at least I’ll end up with iLife ‘08…
I think I shall at least wait for the return on August 17th.
*sigh*
I sure hope it comes out – but above that I hope they don’t screw up and pull a Vista.
Time shall tell!
Thanks for the update.
Jeff Ventura // August 16, 2007 at 6:42 am |
gwhiz — I hope you’re right. I also hope that “coming in on time” doesn’t mean its quality is questionable or that features are neutered/missing.
Khurt Williams // August 16, 2007 at 7:07 am |
Jeff,
I think there is definitely a delay in the works.
I got this (redacted) e-mail from Amazon.com last night.
—————–
“order-update@amazon.com”
to me
show details
Aug 14 (2 days ago)
Hello from Amazon.com.
We’re writing about the order you placed on June 14 2007 07:25 PDT
(Order# 105-6905633-84XXXX). Unfortunately, the release date for the item(s) listed below has
changed, and we need to provide you with a new delivery estimate based on the new release date:
“Apple Mac OS X Version 10.5 Leopard” [DVD-ROM]
Estimated arrival date: 11/07/2007 – 11/09/2007
We need you to approve the new delivery day by September 13 2007, or we
will cancel the item(s) from your order if they have not shipped by then. Please visit the
Order Update page in Your Account at the address below to approve the delay for the
unavailable item(s):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/css/summary/edit.html/?useCase=approve&orderID=105-6905633-8418046
By approving the new delivery estimate, you are letting us know that
you still want the item(s) though they may arrive later than expected.
If there are other items in your order, they will ship according to the
delivery estimates listed in the order details in Your Account
(http://www.amazon.com/your-account).
We apologize for the inconvenience caused by this delay.
*****
WHY WAS THE DELIVERY ESTIMATE CHANGED?
While we do our best to adhere to these estimates, our inventory is constantly
changing based on information we receive directly from our suppliers. Occasionally,
unexpected fluctuations in supply or changes in release dates for new products will
add time to our original availability estimate.
gwhiz // August 16, 2007 at 8:50 am |
Apple Stores will have physical inventory within the month of October. Perhaps Amazon will be getting their mitts on Leopard on Oct 31 like everyone else. They’ll still have to receive it, put it in inventory and ship first available opportunity (Saturday 11/3 or Monday 11/5).
Fanman, man // August 16, 2007 at 9:47 am |
Use of the work “fucked” totally blew your cred man.
Mikhailovitch // August 16, 2007 at 10:26 am |
Come on, Fanman, lighten up. The word was used in the least offensive way possible, and expressed the concept concisely. It’s a common phrase.
Bill // August 16, 2007 at 10:56 am |
Many moons ago, Apple gave an upgrade coupon [for the next OS] with a new Mac purchase. If that were the case, the best of both worlds can be gotten since you get stable 10.4x and then a 10.5 DVD when it is released. This would also get sales fro m those who are awaiting 10.5 [Leopard]. They did it at least once, so maybe again. Cross your fingers Brian.
bob // August 16, 2007 at 11:01 am |
Ok, so I have been using these seeds for awhile. Some good things some bad things. But really it isn’t any worse than 10.4.0 was. It is now down to the nit picky stuff.
Benji // August 16, 2007 at 11:04 am |
“If I had to guess — and I am guessing, so readers who like to read only a few sentences then go apeshit on me in the comments might want to pay attention here”
If by that you mean, “If I had to guess – which I have learnt to make plain from previous articles where I was rightly criticised for presenting my flimsiest guesswork as fact”, I support you. Otherwise, perhaps ponder a moment on who exactly benefits when you insult your readers.
Mike Peter Reed // August 16, 2007 at 11:10 am |
There’s reportedly also a 10.4.11 in the works. Hmmmmmmm …. trick or treat?! Apple are masters of misdirection, but I still prefer matte over glossy screens no matter how strong the RDF.
Bill // August 16, 2007 at 11:10 am |
My question to all is, does anyone remember an OS upgrade coupon besides me and what was the OS? I think 9.0 was one.
Your mom // August 16, 2007 at 11:28 am |
I smell another worthless blog…
Craig // August 16, 2007 at 11:54 am |
I just bought a 24″ iMac and while it would have been nice if it came with an OS upgrade coupon it didn’t. In fact, when I brought up the fact that I was hesitating on my purchase because of the impending release of Leopard the Apple Store sales guy actually suggested I wait! Lucky for Apple I have no self-control whatsoever.
No coupon // August 16, 2007 at 12:34 pm |
If Apple is going to offer a coupon (which I doubt they will), it will only be on computers purchased after October 1.
I believe Apple’s fiscal year ends at the end of Sept and they won’t carry over a promotion from one fiscal year to another.
Ed Anger // August 16, 2007 at 12:43 pm |
When you ASSUME, you make and ass of yourself. You have arrived at your assessment by anal extraction, not facts. Your blog amounts to FUD and nothing more.
And if you are an experienced developer as you claim to be, please tell me: would you rather get a buggy product out on time to please the railbirds and pundits, or would you rather be a bit late and ship a stable product?
I would be happy to wait.
Oh, and by the way: can you please tell me the exact date that Apple promised Leopard? Which day?
I thought so.
Don’t get your panties in a knot. Please.
theswissjob // August 16, 2007 at 12:57 pm |
I agree with your thoughts. I think they put too much time and effort into the iPhone and it’s launch and now other things, including the OS are suffering.
Jeff Ventura // August 16, 2007 at 1:15 pm |
Ed — If you read my post again, you might notice a number of things.
1. I never said I was a developer.
2. I agree and encourage Apple to let the date slip rather than letting buggy code out the door.
3. Apple only promised October. I am wondering if there is a delay upon us for the reasons I mention above.
Try reading my post again.
OS11 // August 16, 2007 at 2:06 pm |
nah, this doesn’t mean a delay, it just means apple wants info on what to focus on. Leopard runs well “as is”, so there won’t be 2nd delay, plus Christmas is coming up and they won’t miss that season.
Scott // August 16, 2007 at 2:15 pm |
Another “tea leaf” you might consider too, is the iLife and iWork ‘08 release. iWork ‘08 seems to rely on some parts of Leopard for some of it’s graphics abilities. Rather than waiting even longer for a release that should have come in January, they went ahead and released it without Leopard. It’s installer adds the needed bits of Leopard in Tiger to make it work.
Suits me fine though. I haven’t seen anything remotely compelling in Leopard for me (the improvements are OK, just not worth $129 to me as they won’t have any real effect on the way I work), but I am VERY happy with iWork ‘08. I just wish they had made the decision to bail on Leopard for the release earlier (so I could have ditched Excel sooner).
Constable Odo // August 16, 2007 at 5:09 pm |
I think that Apple has to release Leopard on time. I believe that it has to be ready to go for the iPhone before sales go really limp. The iPhone is missing far too many features at this point in time.
Chuck // August 16, 2007 at 5:19 pm |
Geesh! Give Jeff a break. I tend to agree with his points even though I think Apple will ship on time. What is it these days with someone having an opinion that differs from yours?
BTW: Keep up the great work, Jeff. I read your blog whenever I get a chance!
¿Leopard retrasado…… de nuevo? en Mundo Mac // August 16, 2007 at 6:22 pm |
[...] que en GracefulFlavor hacen un pequeño análisis que hace sentido, pero en donde el mismo autor espera [...]
Wolfie // August 16, 2007 at 6:45 pm |
@Ed Anger
“When you ASSUME, you make and ass of yourself.”
When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me. You look like a dork when you say it wrong!
If Apple need to spend more time getting it right, they should take the time. OS X is already far superior to Vista so it’s not like they need to play catch-up.
Bill // August 16, 2007 at 7:06 pm |
Odo, are you saying that Leopard will also be an iPhone upgrade? Will it therefore cost $$$ as well?
Paul L // August 16, 2007 at 7:53 pm |
Could not agree more. When a software developer seemingly removes functionality from a build plus seeks outs feedback then this appears that Apple are trying to take a pragmatic approach to hitting the release date. They are fully aware that another delay will hit them financially (investor confidence/share price) plus the mac community and press will take them to task. In addition, Steve J will not appreciate the comparison made to another well published O/S. I too am looking forward to purchasing Leopard, even though no standout features make me think that my business productivity will be improved. I truly hope I’m wrong as I would much sooner read about Apple in a positive light.
Top Posts « WordPress.com // August 16, 2007 at 7:58 pm |
[...] I smell another OSX Leopard delay. See here. Apple is uncharacteristically asking its developer community for feedback on the quality of the latest […] [...]
buzzdroid // August 16, 2007 at 9:18 pm |
The OS X Leopard Release Date Prediction Tracker has been totally out of control for months. We are starting think nobody will ever get this right.
Richard // August 17, 2007 at 2:26 am |
I have faith in Apple, and if it ain’t ready, they will delay it. They will try hard to make the October release, but I doubt they would want to do as MS did with Vista, at least I hope they won’t.
nergalicious // August 17, 2007 at 2:30 am |
Wiggle all you like Apple. I can wait, so can everyone else, the general public and the uninformed don’t care and won’t notice.
A headline on the day and then they’ll all be back to their facebook accounts and buy it when it ships. An OS is not the sam as and app. With an app you can release (just get something out) with an OS you don’t have that luxury. Waiting to upgrade because of an OS upgrade? Ridiculous
GeekBoy // August 17, 2007 at 4:09 am |
It could well be delayed, but I’d rather wait a little bit longer for a finished, well polished product than have to have a barrage of patches to finish it off in the first few weeks of release. This is Apple we’re dealing with, not that other software company.
Stonefingers // August 17, 2007 at 5:17 am |
I too am not concerned with the release date. I would rather have a stable, completely functional product than one that is under the bar that leaves me waiting for a .1, .2, etc, release to fix what isn’t working. That’s one of the reasons we loath Vista – it doesn’t work right out of the box. Steve / Apple, take your time and do right by your own mantra – we won’t ship junk. I’ve been waiting since spring, and I’ll gladly wait a little longer if need be – 10.4.10 is wonderful and I have no problems working with it.
I do have a question though – will iLife ‘08 be included in Leopard as iLife ‘06 has been previously? I honestly haven’t seen that mentioned anywhere, and I’d hate to assume…
Neil Anderson // August 17, 2007 at 1:21 pm |
Maybe the feedback is for 10.5.1?
Just ordered a 24-inch iMac now that iLife 08 and iWork 08 are out. And I know all my peripherals work with Tiger.
More Vapour Ware - Update « nergalicious // August 19, 2007 at 2:27 am |
[...] Not being part of the beta team I don’t know if it’s taking advantage of any forthcoming Leopard features (unlikely for a beta – most testers won’t have access to dev releases of an OS) or changes to core image. I hope it ships before Leopard and a Leopard update isn’t far behind, assuming of course that Leopard isn’t delayed… [...]
LG Gettin O.G.? | the technologist // August 21, 2007 at 3:51 am |
[...] lately. Grumblings around the blogosphere can be heard, calling the iMac update pedestrian and the latest build of the upcoming Leopard OS still buggy as hell (too many to make their once-revised October release date with their usual robust claims of [...]
Oh Sex // September 6, 2007 at 10:34 am |
I had to get a pc recently running vista as some of my sites were fucking up in explorer 7.0. Anyway Vista, new machine, nothing else – really slow, Im talking Women driver on motorway. Gsus, how can anybody work on these things. I have a theory why mac is not firmly embedded in corporate environments. The theory is these ignorant IT twats who have invested so much of their lives in fixing Microsoft stuff would not ever consider switching over to a system that “ran itself” with really smart gui and intuitive software out of the box because what would they do? they would be on the scrap heap with their pile of noisy beige boxes. Tiger is very stable very fast and the best operating system ever. So the wait for leopard is irrelevant. I can wait.
Deborah // October 1, 2007 at 2:18 pm |
I went to the Apple Store yesterday, which was Sunday with monies in hand determined to bring home my long awaited FIRST Apple Computer, an IMAC. I told the salesman I was ready to buy and he said, I suggest you “wait!” Huh? Wait, why wait? He said because Leopard is worth waiting for because it is a 64bit OS which will utilize the new Intel processor totally because it is a 64bit also. I know if I read another perdiction for a longer release date than Oct. 31, 2007, 64bit or not, I buy!