(I am essentially cross-posting this from something I wrote for Clusterflock. I want to get some thoughts and experiences from GF’s readers as well.)
The current situation: I drive a 2006 Dodge Charger R/T, which I’m convinced is made of human feces and some wires. I hate the car across every dimension: the quality sucks, it’s a boat, the mileage is horrible (around 17-18 in summer; 15-16 in winter), the brakes warped at 23K miles, the horn honked randomly until the 3rd trip to the shop, and when I try to start it in the morning it cranks and wheezes and turns like an air-cooled VW that has been mortared and set aflame, even though this too has been looked at (and “fixed”) by a dealership on two different occasions. Even some of its features, in their designed-as-intended state, are stupid. I often want to punch the car but don’t for fear of something important falling off/out, like an axle or the transmission.
Why did I buy it? Good question. I think it’s because I was stupid on that particular day.
So, fast forward to where I am right now: I’m coming up on my lease mileage limit on the Dodge and have a cool 8 months left on this screaming piece of shit, and with my monthly gas expense hovering nicely in the $450 or so range (more than my lease payment), I’m thinking about just buying this thing out and getting a 2008 Prius. I’m fairly sure the math works. (Math is numbers and language is letters, right?)
It’s to that end I am seeking your opinions, anecdotes and experiences with a late-model Prius. I know it’s not some supercar in terms of performance, but that’s not what I want in my daily driver. (That’s what I will buy a Nissan GT-R for.) I want a car that will get me to and fro with a minimum of this thing we call money leaving my pocket.
For reference, my Charger costs me about $1100-$1250 per month to operate. The Prius will cost me around $740. I think I know which way the alligator mouth is pointing on this one.
Go. I’m open to your comments.
22 responses so far ↓
fifthdecade // May 7, 2008 at 10:52 pm
Not sure why you malign the VW, they are at least reliable and cheap to run. Things don’t fall off them. they are easy to fix - but most people never find this out since they just keep on going and going and going.
dbtodd // May 8, 2008 at 9:44 am
I just leased a new Civic cheap. After a Ford Explorer, then an old Camry, I friggin love having a small new car. I have shed my Midwestern ways and adapted to Boston parking. Why pay the premium for the Prius now? Hopefully there will be more competition for Toyota in the coming years to drive the prices down.
Bill // May 8, 2008 at 9:59 am
I always consider snow performance, so I buy AWD, even though it snows very little here. Toyota Highlander has a hybrid model, but I am not sure if the math works out.
A side not. My wife bought a new VW Jetta [Wolfsberg edition?] before I met her. She told about the numerous times that the engine just stopped and would not restart. Many trips to the dealer were no help. First they denied the problem since they could not repeat this random event, and claimed there was no problem at all. This went on until she finally traded it in, praying that it would start when the dealer started it up. She was stranded in so many places, including NYC. She vowed never to buy another VW. Of course, I bought her an R350 AWD Benz. It’ the least I can do for the 3 kids she carried.
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John // May 8, 2008 at 10:28 pm
I would consider a Camary hybrid or a Honda hybrid, if you want a hybrid, Have you test driven a
Prius. I did, and I found that it was difficult seeing out the rear window due to the slant of the window
a the spoiler. To solve this problem when backing up, Toyota has a video screen come on when you put the car in reverse and are backing up. I found this to an annoying feature to correct
this problem. Just my opinion.
Jim // May 9, 2008 at 1:30 am
We bought the Honda hybrid instead of the Toyota. We just liked the look and feel better and bet on higher long term reliability since it says Honda on the label. I have a Boxster I love to roar around in. And, I must say, I really enjoy driving the Honda as well. Nimble, handles well, good ride characteristics, reasonably space age inside and comfortable for me (6′ 4”
for two and three hour runs to Seattle. (I can do 8-10 in the Porsche before getting achey) Gets 44 mpg regularly on the long runs. Seems to work fine for us. Saves us lots of fuel money since we have to drive lots these days to get me to chemo which is a good ways away. Make the leap and I seriously doubt you’ll miss the feces and wires unless you really, really need something to complain about.
Mea Culpa // May 9, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Buy the Prius damn you!
fifthdecade // May 9, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Well, we’ve had three VWs, and all have been trouble free. The first was a family owned 1990 Polo 1.4 that ran for over 90,000 miles before we got rid of it and replaced it with another. The only time it ever broke down was when it went to the garage to be serviced and the mechanic forgot to reconnect part of the carburettor. As for parts, it just needed normal wear and tear replacements.
That was replaced with another, this time a 1.6 Auto, which again has been excellent.
I now have an Audi, which is of course a brand owned by VW. It’s an A3 2.0 Turbo with the remarkable DSG gearbox that has two separate clutches to enable seemless gear changes, cutting 0.4 seconds off the 0-60mph time which it does in 7.0 seconds. It still gives 25 mpg when pushed hard, 40 mpg on long trips taken at a leisurely pace. Not bad for a performance car!
And oh, that gearbox. Once you drive a car with one of these, you just won’t want to go back to anything ordinary ever again.
Bill // May 10, 2008 at 10:39 am
The A series Audi’s seem to be popular in the doctor parking lot. My dearest friend loves his A8, but most are 6’s as well as S6. However, one partner had a TT and vowed never to get another. There are lemons in any brand. My family’s experience with VW has been good, excluding my wife, but her story is heartbreaking. Imagine a tiny girl getting screwed at all dealers, and no help at VW and occasionaly on the street when stranded. At the two lcal Honda dealers, she never left a quarterly checkup [they called her to schedule every quarter] for less than $300. These cars are supposed to be low maintainence, but cost her over $1200 a year for bogus charges, such as replacing new filters or new wipers and excessive charges for all kinds of crap. I brought it in once for an oil change. I was told that it was out of alignment. I told them that I would pass on the $250 service as it felt fine to me. I was then told that he was “going to document that he told me about it”. I told him to go for it, and told him the story above, and retorted that I was going to the Better Business Bureau. [The smartass almost got his ass kicked too, but I figured that his buddies would join in]. This crap does not happen at the Benz dealer, and you get a free car and continental breakfast…all day! My Lexus and Jeep service had a few down spots, but those are another story.
John // May 11, 2008 at 12:11 pm
” The automobile addiction is particulary draining. The cost to repurchase our car part by part, which we have to do to keep them running, is often several times the orginal purchase price. The cost of gas, oil, and insurance, the tax cost of road systems, the cost of the medical effort to heal those maimed in accidents- the total cost of the automobile addition reaches into the trillions of dollars. When did a new car ever make us permanently happy?” excerpt from “Inner Revolution” by Robert Thurman
fifthdecade // May 11, 2008 at 5:23 pm
@Bill, The BBC Top Gear team rate the Audi TT as a bit of a fashion item, rather than as a serious car.
But where did those 3 monthly Honda checkups come from? That sounds like a fraudulent dealer! In the UK we have an institution called the Office of Fair Trading which watches service providers like hawks and even makes mystery buyer visits to them and can actually put them out of business for ripping consumers off like that.
I guess the reputation of any car depends on the local dealer as much as on the manufacturer, if not more. Our local BMW dealer, for instance, is so snooty they really don’t get half the business they could get if they had a trace of friendliness in their attitude!
Andrés // May 12, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Nevertheless neither have I driven a Prius nor am I familiar with one, I will talk about a likely engined and sized car I drive usually, to try to give you an idea about how driving a compact car is.
I usually drive a Prius-like engined 2006 109hp 1.6L Mazda3. It runs decently. Sometimes I wished it was faster though, because with such a responsive steering and sporty suspension that can handle up to a 156hp 2.3L engine, the 145Nm 1.6L makes the car feel heavy after you’ve got used to it. However, for easy driving it’s more than fine, it is, by a comfortable margin, fast enough.
Anyway, after that HEMI almost anything is much slower. So adjust your expectations. It would be like switching to your wife’s single-core 1GHz PowerBook G4 from your current Dual-Core 2GB MBP. It’s comfortably fast enough for daily use [e-mail, web, etc.] But sort of slow for iMovie or iPhoto or even Youtube.
Uphill is when the car feels the slowest. It’s still acceptable for slow speed up-hill, and even when you catch a hill with some initial speed. But if you want to take-off from zero mph to 45mph on a steep hill, the ride feels slow, even if you rev-up the engine a bit, but still acceptable.
Speed or acceleration is not the purpose of these vehicles, though they aren’t slow.
Once, we cruised on the 1.6L Mazda3 like at about 90mph with no problem. It tops at 115mph. Though it’s not the beast on acceleration, it’s comfortably fast enough.
The Prius actually does better than my car, by the extra power the hybrid provides. Not just in acceleration, but also in fuel economy:
0-60mph in 11 seconds [Prius makes it in 9.8, from internet data]
My car does about 30mpg mostly-city, but can give up as high as 40mpg on the highway [a couple more if you keep a mild speed]. The Prius can double that, from what I’ve seen on the net, even providing perceivable extra power.
It’s like current Core 2 Duos being more powerful than previous chips, but consuming less energy.
As with every Japanese car I’m familiar with ['98 Honda Civic, '92 Toyota Corona], the Mazda is very reliable, though a MINI (as I’ve read somewhere you also like) could provide cool European style and comfort. I’m not sure though about the Prius’ reliability/mantainance in the battery/etc sense. I believe it should give no problem, specially if it’s warranty-covered and/or insured. Besides, the gas savings worth the try. The car pays for itself in that sense. [Except if [or even if?] the added economy causes you to drive more].
Drive the car. That is worth more than any other words I may say. I think you must focus your questions to the public on the reliability/durability/manteinance aspect.
Somebody mentioned the current Prius model is at the end of it’s life cycle. But it’s still a good car, and will be top mpg even when the next model comes out next year. And a year of monthly $500 in transport savings looks not bad at all.
Best wishes,
Andrés
Andrés // May 16, 2008 at 12:16 am
I can infer that your estimated savings are $460-$510. Keep in mind that as fuel prices rise the Prius will cost more to operate, but so would the Charger’s, and HEMI’s cost would rise in a higher magnitude than that of the Hybrid.
I.e., per each cent added to the gas prices, the cost of operating the Charger would rise faster than the cost of operating the Prius, because of the greater hunger of the V6.
I.e., in function of gas price, the marginal cost of gas of operating the Charger is greater than that of the Prius. (Note: this is only the gas cost, my analysis lacks other factors as insurance, price, interests, etc.)
Thus, as fuel prices rise, the $500 gap grows too. I think this is important to consider as well.
Given this
(read 3rd and 4th paragraphs), fuel prices are likely to continue to rise as the economy moves out of recession, pushing up demand for gas.
Now, here’s some reasons why my comparison just above isn’t at all fair, and —given those reasons— why the Prius does a better job than most cars its size.
1. In contrast with many non-hybrid cars, in fuel efficiency terms the Prius does better in city than in highway. According to this: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bestworst.shtml
Because in highway the Prius’s gas engine is turned on, highway consumption results in more average-like (but still superior) fuel efficiency, whereas in the city efficiency soars up to the edge.
2. Mazda3 is a big, heavy, and sporty car, intended to be pulled by at least a 2.0L engine. So the 1.6L offered in some markets isn’t showing the car’s optimum configuration. And also, because it’s heavy, the engine isn’t as fuel efficient as it could. In contrast, the Prius is conceived for fuel efficiency combined with decent power (more on this in point 4).
3. Highway speeds are considered higher in the US are indeed higher than than in my country. By keeping a “mild speed”, I referred to almost ideal optimum fuel-efficiency conditions: traveling in a plain road, in warm weather, at an average speed of 42 mph in the last gear. This considered, highway fuel efficiency is lower in the US than in my country, because —on highways— in the US drivers go faster than in my country.
4. Finally, the Prius does a better job than many cars its size because it’s designed specifically as a hybrid, fuel-efficiency in mind. The chassis, the modern transmission, the gas tank capacity[*], etc. all are matched for the most efficient performance. Based on this, the Prius is the most fuel efficient passenger car offered in the US. In contrast with the smaller-gas-engined 1.3L Civic Hybrid, which is a hybridized not-specifically-hybrid designed car. Besides, in terms of power the Prius is also superior than many sompetirors by the additional push coming from the electric motor.
This makes the the Prius an excellent option.
——-
* In contrast, the 1.6L Mazda3’s gas tank loads up to 14.52 gallons, more than 1 gallon more than the bit-larger-engined-but-smaller-chassis’ed 1.8L Honda Civic.
Andrés // May 16, 2008 at 12:21 am
*another note*
Where by “my comparison” I mean the comparison of the Mazda3 to the Prius, NOT to that of the V6 vs. Hybrid gas-related costs.
Andrés // May 16, 2008 at 12:27 am
*if you could edit my as-i-type-this “awaiting-moredarion” comment to make it clear it would be nice.
I hope you take a satisfactory decision. Remember you have good transport after all.
Best wishes.
Suby_Rider // May 30, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Well… about the Charger R/T. i have the 08 and it is so amazing. its not at all a piece of shit. the gas milage is bad yes koz its a Hemi 5.7 L V8 and whom ever buy this car knows this in advance.
Toyota Hater // June 2, 2008 at 3:19 am
First of all, I think you are retarded. Your big math calculation has lead you to believe that you would spend less on gas with a small sub-compact vehicle rather than a large V8 sedan??? NO SHIT!!
I can’t believe some people can even make it through the day without accidentally killing themselves!
Jeff Ventura // June 2, 2008 at 9:01 am
TH: If you took a second to read my post — which is challenging, I know, but try to stick with me — you’d notice that my “big math” involved what to do with my remaining lease payments on the Charger, not whether or not a smaller displacement vehicle would save me gas.
Thanks for playing, anyway.
Dev // June 3, 2008 at 12:41 pm
I wrote couple blog articles not too long back about the Prius. I offer you to read them at
http://deimundus.blogspot.com/
You see people that own a Prius absolutely love it. It’s like the Harley Davidson thing. Outsiders may cry and complain and rant and rage, but they don’t understand why the owners love their Prius. There has got to be a reason, right? I mean if the Prius was as bad as some people make it out to be, it wouldn’t have a cult like following, would it?
All I can say is, the piston engine was an invention of the 1800s. A lot of things have changed since then, but we still pay top dollar to buy a shiny new car which runs on 1800 technology. Would you buy a computer from the late 1950s? Even if it was put in a nice casing with custom paint on the outside and if it came with a free electricity to run it? Would you buy it?
Think about it.
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Tim // July 17, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Sorry to hear that buddy. I’ve never been a fan of Dodge, but I made the switch from an automatic Civic 07 to a Prius 06 5 months ago. Why, you might ask? I figured the math game, although my situation wasn’t nearly as dramatic I was spending 365$ car payment with 140 a month and the civic is supposed to be one of the most fuel efficient cars. I’ve owned 3 I know but the newer ones are much faster and more fun to drive no doubt, but i’m used to practicality. So, I bought the 06 Prius on a whim before the gas went up to $3.50 several months back and saved 3,600 on a used with only 40k. But my point is the car is fantastic! I spend like $425 on the payment and like 70 bucks on gas. Not much of a net gain but it’s a partial zero emmision vehicle, and no transmission, starter and all features like water pump, a/c compressor etc are electric. Future mods linked with free energy systems are the future!
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